Conversation with Panaiotis Manikis. August 30th2009.
During my stay in Klisochori I found what I read about in Fukuoka’s books and, after 15 days spent with many people from different countries (from 35 up to 70 persons every day) I asked Panos his opinion about the Italian situation, where it’s possible to hear and learn something on Natural Agriculture only paying money, and he confirmed me that this is usual even in other countries, and added: «I-we have received this philosophy and practice as a gift and that’s the way it must be communicated. Money distorts things, knowledge must not be given for money.
The question is: “who has no money cannot go to heaven?”» In that precise moment I understood that I found what I was looking for. To make available also in Italy these information I asked Panos to give me an interview to explain this philosophy. I tried to be the less “intrusive” that I could be with my questions, leaving him more free to talk about what he thought was important.
M. «Panos, what do you want to tell to start our conversation?» P. «We invited everyone interested to this meeting, even by means of the official website of the Natural Farming Center: www.naturalfarming.eu to commemorate the death of Fukuoka (in 2008) and to honor his memory, but also to have some good time together. After the death of Fukuoka there is no more a leader, but I think that today it’s no more necessary to have one or more leaders, because everyone must be the leader of himself. We all must learn to make clay balls and work for three principal goals: creation of vegetable gardens of self sufficiency; creation of natural farms or conversion of existing farms to the natural agriculture; reforestation of deserts and barren mountains. We want to communicate this knowledge to other people and to promote Natural Agriculture without letting money or our egoism waste it. I remember that when Fukuoka was here in Greece, he used to stop the work every hour to talk about what we were doing. It was quite tiring but he said that, if someone does not understand the meaning and the purpose of the work that he is doing, the whole work can be wasted. And that’s when people needs a leader to guide them. But if everyone understand what is doing and what the others are doing we don’t need any leader! I am very happy that many people came to this meeting, many Italians as usual but also from South America. I really think that in South America something is moving. When I recently visited Uruguay, Chile, Argentina, Brazil I have seen people enthusiastic not only for the philosophy, but also for the practice. In September we will make a seeding in Patagonia and I think that it’s going to be a very important step to help the people living there, not with money but with seeds. They are very poor and live a hard life. They breed sheep but it’s not enough for them to live and moreover the sheep pasturing damage the soil. We can show them that Natural Agriculture can be the right solutions to their problems and can be by far better than breeding. Now there are at least 10 persons in South America seriously interested in Natural Agriculture and this can be the beginning of a big movement.»
M. «Which information you think is important to communicate?» P. «I think that people who come here, or came in the past years, must make their own experience, they must found their way. Even if a farmer practice Natural Agriculture on the 10% or the 20% of his farm it’s good, but he just have to do it! I think that is important to understand that this method is not only a philosophy, only a theory or only a practice, but is a single solution including the three of them. In my opinion this is the only solution that is able to solve the problems that human mind created to Nature. Even if other agricultural methods can be good, and even excellent in some case, they have no answer for certain kind of problems.»
M. «Which kind of problems you mean? And which solutions can provide Natural Agriculture?» P. «I am talking about seeding in the deserts. Other agricultural methods such as biological, biodynamic, synergic agriculture and permaculture have no solutions to green up broad extensions of land. Natural Agriculture can help in these situations. We cannot yet say that we can always have success in the desert, but we have effective solutions for many adverse situations, like burned soils, and our knowledge get on continuously. I believe that, if other people will put their energy in this task, new ideas will come and new solutions will be available to make a paradise of this world. What we miss is the collaboration of scientists, because we need their work. We must always combine religion, philosophy and science. If we won’t do this we’ll have no hope. Scientists must admit that our knowledge of nature is partial and imperfect, and they must bear in mind that everything they do must serve nature and not the advantage of some multinational or some minority group of persons.»
M. «Tell me at least one good reason that makes Natural Agriculture better than other kind of agriculture.» P. «Unlike every other agricultural method, Natural Agriculture is not dependent on fossil fuels energy. I mean that all the other methods need one or more things like: machinery, manure, herbicides, insecticide, and other chemical or natural products. Intensive agriculture, for instance, depends totally on fossil fuels. This is a dangerous situation, because If, at a given moment, the oil price increases it will be less available, causing a remarkable lowering of production from intensive agriculture. This might cause serious problems of food supplying, especially for those people who spend for their food the 70% or more of their income. Just consider the fact that the recent growth of prices caused the price of raw materials, like rice or wheat, to quite double up with serious consequences in the developing countries. We spend a low percentage of our income for the food so, if the prices of rice or wheat rise of 0,5 € or 1 €, it’s not a problem for us, but just think what can it mean for those people who have to survive with 1 or 2 € per day!»
M. «What are the specific differences between Natural Agriculture and other methods?» P. «Natural Agriculture is completely different from any other method. First of all when we seed we use a large variety of seeds, letting nature do. The four principles on which Natural Agriculture is founded are: no plowing, no chemical manure, no insecticide, no weeding. If we don’t plough the ground we allow it to reconstitute in harmony and recover its fertility. We keep the soil always covered and protected with mulch and this helps to make it a balanced habitat in which the organic and mineral part is well integrated with the animal and vegetal one. We don’t weed out plants that we consider of no use, we only try to aid those plants that can be useful for us. Doing so the natural habitat regenerates itself, is protected and balanced without human interference. Even without human contribution, nature is able to survive, to last and take care of itself. Man think to improve nature but, most of the times, he isn’t able to do anything but damaging it. If we go on damaging nature we will hurt ourselves and we will have to survive in a very uninhabitable world.»
M. «Less science and let nature do quite everything. Looks like a new philosophy.» P. «We must join together science, religion and philosophy. Harmony can exist only if we connect things together, if we separate things the specialization will follow and, in doing this, we lose sight of the totality, including man and nature. Let’s see an example of this approach: let’s suppose that we want to afforest the mountains around Athens. The religious approach suggest us that it’s a good thing to do, even if we don’t know exactly how to do it, because we must take good care of our world. The philosophical approach affirm that nature is perfect and human knowledge Is partial and not perfect. The scientific approach assert that in the desert or where animals pasture we can find very few seeds. So, in our practice of Natural Agriculture, we collect a big variety of seeds, we make clay balls to protect seeds from insects or other animals, and then we spread the clay balls before the beginning of the rain season. Doing this we join together the three approaches in such a way to help nature, until we will turn this world into a “paradise” and we will find again joy in our lives.»
M. «Which proposal you would like to see accomplished?» P. «I’d like that, when you will come back in your countries, you start talking to people about Natural Agriculture, about what you have learned and made here. I’d like you to promote: the creation of familiar vegetable gardens of self sufficiency; the transition from other methods of cultivation to Natural Agriculture, both creating new natural farms or converting existing farms to this method; Help to green up the deserts and the barren mountains. The barren mountains sooner or later will create serious problems to the farmers in the valleys, so the first to be interested and to act should be right them, both farmers of little and big farms.»
M. «What do you wish for the future?» P. «I’d like to see interested farmers, because in this meeting in Greece I haven’t seen any farmer, even if they should be the most interested to Natural Agriculture. It’s sad because only the farmers can put Natural Agriculture into practice and improve the technique. Without them we have no chance to make things better, and we will go on exploiting and impoverishing nature and using fossil fuels to produce our food.»
Interview by: Marco Lo Bianco Translation by: Sandro Benedetti
